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I imagine a world where... - The Autobiography of Russell
Life from a different perspective
zimzat
zimzat
I imagine a world where...

I imagine a world where...

  • Clothing is optional.
  • Sex isn't a big deal.
  • Nothing is assumed to be forever.
  • Every job is considered just as important as any other.
    (Garbageman vs food delivery vs programmer vs musician vs senator vs president)
  • All non-violent acts are reprimanded with community service or equal reparation.
    (No jail time, no fines)
  • All punishments are weighted according to the relative impact of other crimes.
    (Serial Murder > Murder > Violence > Property Damage > Theft)

There were more that I thought of in the shower based on things I talked about last night with Ben, but I can't remember any others right now and daylight is a-wasting. Maybe more later, then.

Current Mood: okay okay

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Comments
mai_neh From: mai_neh Date: November 13th, 2011 02:08 am (UTC) (Link)
I like your imagination :-)
zimzat From: zimzat Date: November 15th, 2011 04:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's a good place to be most of the time. Very Star Trek-ish.

I do wish I could fly around in space in a decent sized ship. :(
andrewshead From: andrewshead Date: November 13th, 2011 02:25 am (UTC) (Link)
* Clothing is optional.: Agreed
* Sex isn't a big deal.: Agreed
* Nothing is assumed to be forever.
* Every job is considered just as important as any other.: I think a lot more respect needs to be given to manual labor jobs, but I'm not sure I can ever see a explosive ordance disposal job XXXXXX
* All non-violent acts are reprimanded with community service or equal reparation. : So if someone breaks into my house when I'm not here it should be community service only? Burning down a house when everyone is away? While I think possession/non-dealing drug charges shouldn't include jail time I have a problem extending it a lot out past that.
* All punishments are weighted according to the relative impact of other crimes. : Agreed (for the most part) don't we do that now?
zimzat From: zimzat Date: November 13th, 2011 03:27 am (UTC) (Link)
* Every job is considered just as important as any other.: I think a lot more respect needs to be given to manual labor jobs, but I'm not sure I can ever see a explosive ordance disposal job XXXXXX

Some jobs have more risk than others; however, they're just as important. Also, most of those risks can, and should, be mitigated by technology (robotics, for instance). We're in an age where we can have machines do practically anything remotely. They don't even need to be intelligent (putting an AI at risk).

* All non-violent acts are reprimanded with community service or equal reparation. : So if someone breaks into my house when I'm not here it should be community service only?

Community service or other reparation. And it should be enforced. Putting them into jail doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't give back to the person who had their property stolen. In fact, we're paying to have them incarcerated anyway!

Burning down a house when everyone is away?

A year or two of community service and garnished wages to repay for the house should suffice ('wag' figure, could be more or less depending on value and amount of property).

Agreed (for the most part) don't we do that now?

Hardly. The fines for sharing digital goods (music, movies, etc) come to mind, and jail time for drug possession and 'dealing' vs, oh, murder, are also imbalanced. Some have said it's a ploy by the companies running the jails to get more people for longer so they make more money.
andrewshead From: andrewshead Date: November 13th, 2011 03:46 am (UTC) (Link)
Some jobs have more risk than others; however, they're just as important. Also, most of those risks can, and should, be mitigated by technology (robotics, for instance). We're in an age where we can have machines do practically anything remotely. They don't even need to be intelligent (putting an AI at risk).
Sorry this wasn't a fully thought out comment. Some jobs are harder to do/more complicated/require special skills than others.

For example: I work in a room that only a select list of people are allowed by our customer to access the room unescorted. Every day to clean two people come around. The first person (Rosa) actually cleans the room. The 2nd person (James)is cleared to access the room. James opens the door and basically watches Rosa clean the room. I consider Rosa's job a hell of a lot more important than James. I know quite a few people who's job it is to escort people around restricted area. I don't respect the work of people who's jobs are basically watch other people do their job.

Now my job is an odd place, but I can think of a lot of examples of this.


A year or two of community service and garnished wages to repay for the house should suffice ('wag' figure, could be more or less depending on value and amount of property).

Honestly I'm not sure I'd be against labor camps for non-violent offenses (but honestly that is probably worse than prison).


Hardly. The fines for sharing digital goods (music, movies, etc) come to mind, and jail time for drug possession and 'dealing' vs, oh, murder, are also imbalanced. Some have said it's a ploy by the companies running the jails to get more people for longer so they make more money.

Fines for digital goods are entirely a civil matter and not really part of the criminal justice system (for the most part). I think the John Doe lawsuits are insane and need to be fixed.
zimzat From: zimzat Date: November 13th, 2011 04:24 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh, they're trying to make the fines for digital goods a criminal matter... Regardless if it's a civil or criminal matter, the crime has a penalty that is way out of bounds. The common person doesn't care that they're getting civil or criminally pursued; it's still enough to have them spend the rest of their three lives paying it off!

One of the unspoken parts of every job done being important is that no one is allowed to do nothing, or waste their time. Your job has a valid concern regarding security clearance. On the one hand they don't want to pay the cleaner a ton to be confidential, yet they can't let the low-pay person in because they haven't been vetted. In a world where everyone was equal they'd just get the cleaner cleared and do away with the person watching them. Thus why I gave the solution for the explosive ordinance person to use a mechanical arm/wheel/etc to perform their job.

Worst than prison? Maybe if you were the one doing the labor, but that alone would be a pretty good deterrent. No, I'm not talking about concentration camps. If there isn't a psychological reason why they committed a crime and would do it again, let them have a part-time job to support themselves, and spend the other half of their day doing labor directly as penalty.

Edited at 2011-11-13 04:25 am (UTC)
lakeguy From: lakeguy Date: November 13th, 2011 04:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
Clothing is optional : fully agree :)
zimzat From: zimzat Date: November 15th, 2011 04:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
We should have a clothing optional day some time. ;)

I'm thinking when it gets warm I should try making it to your area again to join you at one of those clothing optional beaches.
lakeguy From: lakeguy Date: November 15th, 2011 04:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
yes I agree

I was going to suggest clothing optional day when you were here last but I didn't think you would go for it.

also it was too cold here I think for a clothing optional beach when you were here.

we only have one clothing optional beach here in Ontario anyway
zimzat From: zimzat Date: November 15th, 2011 05:40 pm (UTC) (Link)
I could go for a great many things. Either way, though, you just have to ask politely and I won't be offended to have to say no. :) Heck, a woman could ask me politely to have sex and I'd say no thanks but it wouldn't offend me or estrange me to them. :P

It was cold some days, but others it got to be reasonably warm during the day. I remember riding the bike I had at the time and it was getting somewhat warm in the late afternoon.

If not a clothing optional beach then what? ;)
From: anarchomo Date: November 13th, 2011 08:58 am (UTC) (Link)
Now you sound like my anarchist friends. XD

You'd disagree with them about other things, though, like how to get to such a world and how to run it.

Also, your thoughts about violent vs. non-violent crime, and weighting crime, remind me of Celtic Europe. They had highly technical lists of what every single object in a typical household was worth, but by all indications, they had no markets.

Day-to-day allocation was probably done with gift culture--everybody knows everybody, and they give each other what they need. Not pulling your weight would result in a loss of social status, and giving lots away would increase social status--like friends taking turns buying lunch.

The rules about what everything was worth were for compensation when someone got physically hurt. If you injure someone, you owe them something specific, not just like "I'll buy you lunch someday." How much you owe depends on their social status and how much damage you did. A noble's eye might be worth two cows, for instance.

So there are times and places where they did it something like what you describe, at least in some respects.
zimzat From: zimzat Date: November 15th, 2011 04:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Interesting history factoid, thanks for sharing. Kind of sad that didn't prosper, but then I imagine the reason not is due to some sort of conquerer.

Yeah, how to get there will probably take a lot of doing, whatever that method is. How to run it really shouldn't be that hard. My solution is always that simpler is better. KISS, so to speak.
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